Willie Martin and Christian Identity on Trial
By Lewis Loflin
Christian Identity is a racist and anti-Semitic cult. They refer to mainstream Christianity as a "Jew religion" and substitute their own occult beliefs. Willie Martin is a member of this cult who floods newsgroups and bulletin boards with an endless stream of hate against Jews and non-whites.
The late Willie Martin (died December 6, 2003) was a 62-year-old disabled oil worker who was living in Texas. Willie and I corresponded by e-mail for months (I was also on his mailing list) and he really does believe what he says. His justifies his anger and rage at the world with a wall of hate painted over with paranoia and endless conspiracy theories. While I can sympathize with some of his complaints, advocating armed overthrow of our government, genocide and murder/terror as state policy just goes too far.
What is more shocking to me as a veteran is most of these crazies are veterans who served their country with honor but for some reason hate everything it stands for. What is really odd is the vast majority of these right-winger's who want a war in our own backyards have never seen combat. (I haven't either, in fact most vets never do.) Those who I have known to be in combat (two older brothers in "Nam" etc.) don't want to bring the jungle home and would rather forget it. It seems the military "revs up" these people for war, then leaves them hanging. The only problem is that some of them are still waiting for that war that never came. Combine that with the American Christian obsession with Armageddon in the Book of Revelation, we have a recipe for tragedy.
These attitudes towards the world has led to the creation of monsters such as Tim McVeigh whose hatred and paranoia has led to the deaths of a 168 innocent victims of "collateral damage" in Oklahoma City. We also ended up with Randy "Ruby Ridge" Weaver, a coward who hid behind his armed children to escape the law and whose paranoid bullshit led to the deaths of his son Sammy and his wife Vicki. Let's look into their claims for an idea how seemingly normal people can go off the deep end.
Randy "Ruby Ridge" Weaver visits our community, gets it wrong again.
Tim McVeigh and Christian Identity
What Christian Identity thinks of Baptists
Khazars and the Jews
Debunking the Protocols
Christian Identity: a Christian Response
What are their real claims? They are as follows:
- The actual chosen people of the Bible are the Anglo-Saxon white Europeans descended from the lost 10 tribes of ancient Israel who have been secretly hiding in Europe. Hebrew is actually the ancient tongue of the Germans, Celts, etc. (Jesus was also British) Thus Europeans are the Jews of the Bible!
- All modern Jews are imposters, descended from a Turkish tribe called the Khazars that converted to Judaism. Thus Jews are the gentiles! See Khazars.
- There were really two creations: one for the non-whites, and another for Adam and Eve, who are also British. (Adam and the Adamites) Thus the Bible is a lie! See Adamites
Who are the people that Christian Identity and Willie Martin cite as experts? Communists, atheists, Nazis, assorted 19th century cults, and their own revelations directly from Jesus/God himself!
This is what Willie Martin says about Christians:
"ALL TOO MANY ARE BEING LED TO FALSE GODS, BECAUSE THE CLERGY OF ORGANIZED RELIGION, EVANGELISTS, AND TEACHERS HAVE FAILED THE COMMISSION, THEY CLAIM, WAS GIVEN TO THEM BY ALMIGHTY GOD AND THE LORD JESUS CHRIST; BUT THEIR WORKS PROVE, THAT IS A LIE, THEIR WORKS PROVE THEY ARE REALLY WORKING FOR SATAN!"
Thus, your local pastor is a Satanist unless they are a member of the Christian Identity cult.
Their goal is nothing less than wrapping our Lord Jesus Christ in a Nazi uniform and destroying both His Word and the traditions of this great nation.
For an alternative perspective on "Christian Identity", check out:
Let's put these people on trial and decide if Jesus is a Nazi or the Son of God.
Mr. Martin's opening remarks.
"Some critics of Identity are simply uninformed regarding the basic belief system due to an inadequate foundation of evidence and education. Others are so brainwashed by the Judeo-Christian false shepherds, writers, radio and TV personalities, that their premise that the Jews are God's Chosen People becomes an almost insurmountable barrier to open, honest and rational examination of the evidence to the contrary. Yes, Identity has become the new target of the cult watchers, the politically and religiously correct, and the simple-minded."
My opening remarks:
Like everybody that makes radical claims, they will use anything to try to validate their beliefs. They always tend to quote fellow believers as proof they are right or references nobody can find. A good example of this is the Afro-Centrist Movement.
This silly cult claims all of our knowledge from the Greeks, Romans, etc. was stolen from Africa and everybody is a liar to claim otherwise. What is their proof? They only quote each other, scream at anyone that disagrees, and finally reveal their political/social agenda. Extreme environmentalists, feminists, and others also do this on the far left in addition to Christian Identity, Christian Reconstructionists, Neo-Nazis, etc on the far right.
All of these groups operate outside the mainstream and reject mainstream thought, refuse to present proof of their claims, and rely mainly on pseudo-science, false authority, and assorted mystics. They rely especially on each other.
Truth is about facts. What is fact? What most of our society considers fact it is based on both reason and experience. Our legal system (a jury) bases "fact" on the credibility of the physical evidence and those who are called as witnesses. When they can't present proof or reliable witnesses, they use other means.
The process they use is what I call "self-revelation," a process of trying to construct one's desired beliefs/arguments (outside reason and empirical evidence.) based selected bits and pieces of the Bible and other texts, and the revelations of mystics. Then they claim it's "the word of God," "secret knowledge," "special revelations" or whatever terms the author chooses to use. The idea is to confuse the jury and throw doubt on the facts.
When nobody will agree with them, they always resort to conspiracy theories, (Jews, Freemasons, New World Order, Popes, Satan, Christian Right, tooth fairies, etc.) and other assorted paranoid/irrational nonsense. The evasions and conspiracy theories are endless. The proof is up to them. Lacking proof, there is only one real chance, discredit the truth.
Thus they claim everybody else, most Christians included, just don't understand them. We've been deceived all of our lives and if we would just listen, the proof is there. Ok, I'm listening, let's look closely at this proof.
My proof is very simple, I just use the Bible as written without resorting to "self-revelation" or help from invisible spirits and self-proclaimed mystics. They claim the white Anglo-Saxons are the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel that sneaked off to Europe after being deported by the Assyrians. The fact is the Tribes were never lost, it's a myth. Most fled into Judah. While much of the story of Assyria is covered in 2 Kings, Ezekiel concerned the later Babylonians. Quoting Ezekiel 9:9, "Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood..."
They still existed at that time together. Jeremiah 50:33 concerning the Babylonian Captivity, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; The children of Israel and the children of Judah were oppressed together: and all that took them captives held them fast; they refused to let them go." This was later fulfilled when the Persians crushed the Babylonians and allowed the Jews/Israel to return. Many never did and stayed behind forming the vast Jewish communities in Mesopotamia. That what the Bible says, but since Christianity teaches the use of allegory/mysticism and not the use of reason, it's a waste of time trying to reason with those "possessed" by the Holy Spirit. I call it mental illness.
When I asked Willy Martin for list of references for his claims, I got the following:
The Bible relates that the Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the sons of Japheth not Shem: "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." (Genesis 10:1-3) Therefore, the Bible proves that the Ashkenaz Jews [Khazars] are not the descendants of Shem and cannot be Semite.
My response: The Bible says no such thing. It says only this:
"Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." (Genesis 10:1-3)
This pattern of inserting comments and opinions into quotes doesn't make them quotes, just comments and opinions. Thus, he keeps inserting Khazar. The word Khazar is not even in the Bible. So says the King James Version Electronic Bible with word search.
The History of the Jewish Khazars, by D.M. Dunlop: This guy is the only legitimate reference he cites. The only problem is he doesn't say all Eastern European Jews are Khazars. Perhaps Willie would tell us what page that statement is on. This is what the facts really are:
D.M. DUNLOP, HISTORY OF THE JEWISH KHAZARS (Princeton Univ. Press, 1954): "It only remains now to consider the theory that the modern Jews of eastern Europe, or more particularly those in Poland, are the descendants of the medieval Khazars. This can be dealt with very shortly, because there is LITTLE EVIDENCE which bears directly upon it, and it unavoidably retains the character of a mere assumption. ... To speak of the Jews of eastern Europe as descendants of the Khazars...would be to GO MUCH BEYOND WHAT OUR IMPERFECT RECORDS ALLOW." (pp. 261,263. Emphasis has been added to quotations. Dunlop is a source book for Koestler. Koestler believes the theory that east European Jews are descendants of the Khazars.)
Sorry Willie, try again.
Encyclopedia Americana (1985): Encyclopedia Britannica (15th edition): Academic American Encyclopedia (1985): Encyclopedia Americana (1985): The American People's encyclopedia for 1954 Academic American Encyclopedia, Deluxe Library Edition, Volume 12, The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 6
He presented these on another newsgroup posting and refuses to quote them "word for word" and keeps inserting his own stuff, just like he does with Scripture. He doesn't mean to lie, he simply believes what he believes and wants to prove it.
I don't have these editions but the one's I have don't say anything about all Jews being Khazars.
The Jewish Encyclopedia: The Encyclopedia Judaica (1972): The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: Jewish Encyclopedia for 1925, The Encyclopedia Judaica, The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia:
"According to Ibn Fadlan, Ibn Dastah, and others, ONLY THE KING AND THE GRANDEES WERE FOLLOWERS OF JUDAISM. The rest of the Khazars were Christians, Mohammedans, and heathens; and THE JEWS WERE IN A GREAT MINORITY." (Jewish Encyclopedia)
Me: I have no access to most of these. They know most people won't find them and they can claim anything they want. I'm sure there's no statements that most/all Jews are Khazars.
The Outline of History. H. G. Wells, "It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew's ancestors 'never' lived in Palestine 'at all,' which witnesses the power of historical assertion over fact."
That statement is false. I found a copy of The Outline of History at a used bookstore in Johnson City, Tennessee. Wells doesn't say any of the above in his book. This is what he really said; "Behind the Hungarians and Bulgarians thrust the Khazars, a Turkish people, with whom were mingled a very considerable portion of Jews who had been expelled from Constantinople, who had mixed with them and made many proselytes. To these Jewish Khazars, are to be ascribed the great settlements of Jews in Poland and Russia." (P. 530) That is all he says on Khazars.
The only problem with this is he suggests the Jews were with the Khazars from the beginning, thus because those Jews originated from the Byzantine Empire, thus Israel, Khazars were mostly Jews to begin with. Even if they were the only ancestors of Polish/Russian Jews, they still came from ancient Israel.
This isn't even close to what Willie Martin and other Neo-Nazis are claiming. On page 659 Wells described (in regards to Spain) as bigoted the "persecution of Protestants, Moslems, and Jews." And on page 666 he described the Jews of Poland as "great masses of very poor Jews." Hardly the rich Jew bankers of Nazi myth.
Wells was very critical of anti-Semitism and Hitler. On page 918 he describes Hitler's "Mein Kampf" as "either absolute lies or bold distortions of fact" and as "a confused, illiterate, schoolboy production."
H. G. Wells was a great science fiction writer, a socialist, an atheist, and had a biology degree. He died in 1946 but his book was updated to 1945. He has no credentials in theology or history and his "Outline of History" has been proven wrong on several points. He never claimed any such credentials. While popular to the public in the 1920s on, this book has never been considered a history text.
Wells is still one of my favorite sci-fi writers.
Facts Are Facts, By Benjamin Freedman.
This guy claims to be a former Jew who spent millions of dollars to tell the world of evil Jewish plots. Seems like he wasted his money, the only place he's got his story out to is hate-filled Neo-Nazi sites such as Stormfront and from websites of the Arab terrorists who blew up the USS Cole killing 17 Americans. He is no more Jewish than I am, if he existed at all.
The Zionist Connection II, Alfred M. Lilienthal
Appears only on Holocaust denial sites such as the Institute for Historical Review, and others run by their fellow racists, Arab terrorists, and Jew-baiters. Why resort to Holocaust denial? If the mass-murder of 12 million Jews, Gypsies, political prisoners, etc didn't happen, National Socialism would become more acceptable. Thus the Christian Identity version of National Socialism could become an acceptable alternative to Christianity.
Nothing again for proof outside Christian Identity. If I'm an atheist trying to prove God doesn't exist and all I can quote is the American Atheists, that is proof of nothing. This is why they rely on each other. I do not accept information from Christian Identity on this subject anymore than I accept atheist's websites on God or Jesse Jackson on race relations.
Collier's Encyclopedia, Volume 14 See Khazars below.
The Cadillac Modern Encyclopedia, Never heard of it.
From Willie: The Thirteenth Tribe, by Arthur Koestler
Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved.
KOESTLER, ARTHUR (1905-1983), Hungarian author of Darkness at Noon (1941), one of the most important books of our time, and in some ways a primer for a generation disillusioned with communism. Of Russian descent, he was born on Sept. 5, 1905, in Budapest. He received a scientific education in Vienna but did not complete it. In 1926 he went to Palestine as a convert to Zionism.
In 1931 another conversion brought him to communism and Russia, and although he soon found Marxist policy and later the ideology itself unacceptable, both marked him for life.
(snip) Koestler turned from political topics in the late 1950's to philosophical analyses of such subjects as art, science, society, and religion. Notable works in this vein include The Sleepwalkers (1959); The Lotus and the Robot (1960), an examination of the contemporary significance of two Eastern religions, Yoga and Zen Buddhism;
and The Thirteenth Tribe (1976). Koestler committed suicide in London on Mar. 4, 1983.
My response: Koestler was a very complex man who changes his outlook over time. Regardless of his writing ability, Koestler has no standing in theology or history and is proof of nothing in regards to the Khazar claims of Christian Identity. Sadly near the end of his life he suffered from advanced Parkenson's which drove him to suicide. The world will miss him.
While I'm sure he refers to the Khazars as a 13th tribe, the fact many Khazar Jews were Jewish refugees from elsewhere doesn't prove modern Jews are not the descendants of the Jews of the Bible. Talk about grasping at straws...
For more information on Arthur Koestler click here
On this "Adam and the Adamite" business:
From Jonathan F. Sullivan (This man is a Christian) we have the real origins of this Adam and the Adamite business:
For instance, early Identity members struggled with traditional Christian anthropology; specifically, they wondered how both blacks and whites could be descendants of the same original human. Drawing upon Victorian science, it seemed clear that, for instance, blacks and whites display different physical characteristics, making the idea of a common ancestor unlikely.
Drawing on the work of Isaac de la Peyr�re, a 17th century Calvinist who advocated the idea of two creations (one for Gentiles, the second for the creation of Adam) and of Dominick M'Causland, a 19th century Englishman who wrote Adam and the Adamite, British-Israelism had developed a historical theology of creation based upon the presupposition that all nonwhites were descendant from a sub-human, pre-Adamic species.
Such a development in theological thought also clears up certain questions that arise from the biblical text. For instance, when faced with the dilemma of where Cain's wife came from, Identity theology assertsthat she was of one of the pre-Adamic races (Barkun 1994, 154).
My response: So here we have writings of a 19th century Englishman named Dominick M'Causland who couldn't stand the Biblical claim that black people might be his relatives. What does he do? He uses ideas of a 17th century Calvinist mystic he read about and concocted this whole business to undo Biblical truths he didn't like. There is no Biblical basis for two creations. Christian Identity does not follow Scripture, thus they are not Christians. They are in fact a cult.
If it's not written in Scripture, it is opinion at best. The Bible warns us again and again of false prophets and this is a good example of that warning.
From Willie: Alexander Winchell
Winchell, Alexander, 1824-1891.
Alexander Winchell papers, 1833-1891.
From the University of Michegan ( http://www.umich.edu./~bhl/bhl/franclas/winchell.htm ) we get this:
Alexander Whinchell was a professor of geology and paleontology at the University of Michigan He also served as director of the Michigan Geological Survey and chancellor of Syracuse University. In his day he was a popular lecturer and writer on scientific topics. His views on race and ethnicity, though rejected today, were very much in fashion at the time. His collection includes correspondence, diaries, field notes, drafts of publications and lectures, poems, reference files, scrapbooks, and visual materials relating to his research and writing in the fields of geology, paleontology, evolutionary biology, and other fields of natural history, and to his career as educator and state geologist.
Me: Note he has no credibility in history, archeology, or theology. He is irrelevant to these subjects. This is like hiring a lawyer to do brain surgery. Winchell's racist writings are found on something called "Christian Defense League" in Arabi, La, another hate group. Christian Identity heavily quotes his stuff yet Christians rejected this guy in general. Why would anyone who claims to be Christian quote evolutionists, communists, or an atheist science fiction writer?
The United Methodists at http://www.drew.edu/books/200Years/part3/057.htm had this to say in regards to Winchell as it relates to religion vs science:
Some persons tried to respond positively to these challenges. Alexander Winchell, a professor of geology at Methodist-related Vanderbilt University, suggested that Darwin's theory of evolution supported belief in God because it offered clear evidence of design in creation. Another sort of design became evident in 1878 when Winchell discovered his teaching position had been abolished.
Me: Winchell was a prominent geologist and evolutionist who tried to reconcile science/religion, he failed.
Let's clear up these Khazar and Ashkenaz ravings once and for all. I can find nowhere in any academic circles, any historian, or encyclopedia that makes the claim "all present European Jews descended from the Khazars. Nowhere is this said and the picture is more complex than that.
From AN INTRODUCTION TO THE HISTORY OF KHAZARIA
by Kevin Alan Brook, Copyright (C) 1996
Latest revision: July 2000.
We have the following:
The Khazars' dual-monarchy was a Turkic system under which the kagan was the supreme king and the bek was the civilian army leader. The kagans were part of the Turkic Asena ruling family that had provided kagans for other Central Asian nations in the early medieval period. The Khazar kagans had relations with the rulers of the Byzantines, Abkhazians, Hungarians, and Armenians. To some extent, the Khazarian kings influenced the religion of the Khazar people, but they tolerated those who had different religions than their own, so that even when these kings adopted Judaism they still let Greek Christians, pagan Slavs, and Muslim Iranians live in their domains. In the capital city, the Khazars established a supreme court composed of 7 members, and every religion was represented on this judicial panel (according to one contemporary Arab chronicle, the Khazars were judged according to the Torah, while the other tribes were judged according to other laws).
Ancient communities of Jews existed in the Crimean Peninsula, a fact proven by much archaeological evidence. It is significant that the Crimea came under the control of the Khazars. The Crimean Jewish communities were later supplemented by refugee Jews fleeing the Mazdaq rebellion in Persia, the persecutions of Byzantine emperors Leo III and Romanus I Lecapenus, and for a variety of other reasons. Jews came to Khazaria from modern-day Uzbekistan, Armenia, Hungary, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and many other places, as documented by al-Masudi, the Schechter Letter, Saadiah Gaon, and other accounts. The Arabic writer Dimashqi wrote that these refugee Jews offered their religion to the Khazar Turks....
Me: Khazaria was filled with refugee Jews from "Uzbekistan, Armenia, Hungary, Syria, Turkey, Iraq, and many other places" and likely outnumbered any converts. The Khazar rulers didn't require conversion and tolerated anyone, even pagans. These refugees certainly included those who ancestors originated in ancient Israel.
More information here:
"Are Russian Jews descended from the Khazars?" http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
From the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia ( http://www.newadvent.org )we have the following excerpt from "History of the Jews:"
It was during this period that the great Kingdom of the Chazars, which was situated west of the Caspian Sea, and had caused the Persians to tremble, embraced Judaism (c. 745); its rulers remained exclusively Jewish above two centuries and a half. After the caliphs of the Ommiad dynasty, one of whom had a Jew as his mint-master, those of the Abassides, till after Harun al-Rashid (d. 809), do not seem to have seriously disturbed their Jewish subjects; during that time, the Babylonian Talmudic schools were crowded with hearers, and had it not been for their internal dissension, religious (Karaites) and political (contests for the dignity of exilarch), the Jews of Babylon would have been as happy as they were renowned for their...
Note: "rulers remained exclusively Jewish" it says nothing about the whole population converting. This has been true on every dictionary I can actually find.
Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved.
KHAZARS, a nomadic Turkic people who first appeared north of the Caucasus in the early part of the fourth century. In the seventh century the Khazars conquered the kingdom of the Bulgars. They built up a strong and prosperous state, which attained its greatest size in the ninth century, when it extended from the Crimea to the middle Volga and westward to the Dnepr River. The Khazars developed some important commercial cities and carried on trade with Russia and the Byzantine Empire. The ruler of the Khazars, called the qaqaan, was also the religious leader. Tolerant of other religions, the qaqaans welcomed thousands of Jews from Asia Minor and the Byzantine Empire, as well as many Muslims and Christians. These three religious groups vied with one another to convert the Khazars, who followed their traditional religion.
Around the middle of the eighth century the qacentury the qaan and his retinue adopted Islam, but at the turn of the ninth century Qaninth century Qaan Bulan declared Judaism the state religion, changing his name to Obadiah. However, the Khazar state continued religious tolerance. It was finally overthrown in A.D. 965 by a coalition of Russians and Byzantines. The Khazars soon disappeared, either fleeing westward or intermingling with other peoples in southern Russia. The last vestiges of the Khazars in the Crimea were destroyed by the Byzantines and Russians in 1016.
FRED C. HAMIL
This confirms the other Khazar articles above.
Me: There is no mention anywhere of all or even most of the people of this region converting to Judaism. Even if (not likely) every Jew in Eastern Europe came from Khazaria, they still would likely have originated from the Middle East and Asia Minor. All of these people and all Europeans are mixed anyway, and many Jews were converted or assimilated, so these Christian Identity arguments about the "exclusive Khazar" Jews have no merit and neither does these Adamite revelations.
This excerpt on Polish Jews from Copyright (c) 1996 P. F. Collier, L. P. All rights reserved.
The ultimate fate of the Khazars and the extent of their representation in the Polish Jewish population have been debated by historians to this day. The views on this matter range from the great 19th-century historian Heinrich Graetz's insistence that the Khazar conversion to Judaism had almost no effect on subsequent Jewish history to Arthur Koestler's book The Thirteenth Tribe , in which he argues that a majority of Ashkenazic Jewry is descended from the Khazars. Most modern scholars of Jewish history believe that, over the course of the 14th and 15th centuries, many Khazars were assimilated into Poland's already established Jewish community, which was overwhelmingly of Franco-German origin.
How about the term "Ashkenaz" as used by Christian Identity?
Colliers again in ASHKENAZIM:
The term Ashkenaz originally denoted a people and/or country in the Armenia-Upper Euphrates area (Genesis 10:3; I Chronicles 1:6; Jeremiah 51:27). Scholars have offered varying suggestions as to how the word became associated with Germany, but in any case Ashkenaz had become established as the accepted Hebrew term for Germany by the 11th century. At that time, the Rhineland was the main center of western Jewish culture north of the Pyrenees. However, the Franco-German Jewry was nearly wiped out by repeated Christian massacres during the epoch of the Crusades and the Black Death (12th-14th centuries).
Some scholars have suggested that the term Ashkenazi was already in use as a self-identification among the Khazar Jewry, because the tenth-century spiritual leader of Oriental Jewry, Saadiah Gaon, had identified the Khazars with the biblical Ashkenaz.
Me: So this term was never applied to Jews at all in the Old Testament and didn't mean Jewish anything until after the 10th century, if then.
Willie Martin is the victim of a cult that feeds on the anger and frustrations of others. Like many Americans he is angered at social and economic changes he doesn't approve of or doesn't understand. They told him whom to blame then supplied the reasons why. I'll bet Mr. Martin has never read "History of the World" or believes in Winchell's evolution. What these people do is hunt for anything to degrade Jews no matter how trivial or where it comes from. He could be a founder of this cult on the basis of the massive amount of material he floods the newsgroups with.
It is up to you the reader to check out the facts for yourself. Do not allow these bigots to hide their hate behind the Bible or allow them to infiltrate your churches. God is the one judge that really counts!
I'm not Jewish but he can put me on Jew Watch hate page if he wants to. On second thought, according to them, I'm Jewish after all.
If anybody has verifiable proof from reputable and disinterested scholars on this, please send it to me. Please don't quote anymore communists, atheists, Nazis, Arab terrorists, or science fiction writers as experts on history or theology.
Response: This (below) is an example of the irrational thinking these people get into. The Bible says nothing about 911, nothing about the Europeans, nothing, zero, zilch. The Jews never killed Jesus, the Romans did. Also note that if God planned this for our redemption, than God killed Jesus, and the Jews were controlled by God to carry out His plans. I don't believe any of this nonsense myself.
Just making up nonsense (self revelation or GENESIS INTERPRETED LITERALLY and LOGICALLY) based on distorting scripture to cover up what is just racism, anti-Semitism, and a general hate of Orthodox Christianity won't fly here. Produce a reputable reference, not just quote your fellow believers. Christianity has been plagued by this apocalypse nonsense to the point of being totally discredited. There is no "Jewish race" in any scientific sense of the word and as a WASP my ancestors never come from the Middle East or Abraham as you claim. Also see A Christian View of Christian Identity Also if you want to talk science and Genesis see Which Creation Story?
The following was left on my guestbook and in relation to this article and is typical of the fantasy world of Christian Identity.
Time very limited now, but I began scanning data on Willie Martin as he seems to have the Bible scenario pretty well nailed down... as I independently began to unscramble it in my long efforts as a Geologist (from MIT) who had to conform real data (such as ancient age of Earth and existence of humans before "Adam") with Genesis... I have just written GENESIS INTERPRETED LITERALLY and LOGICALLY.
I'll have to try finding data by Willie on his conformation of science and Bible in Genesis Chap 1-12 (zone of my writing)
I found one minor error in Willie's data about "Ashkenazim" and Gen 10... it clearly says (Gen 9 end) Japheth (a "clean" son on Noah) is to dwell in the"tents"(housing) of Shem/Sem and thus I see this as a unification of these. (Ham's incest with Noah's wife, giving birth to genetically and morally degenerate Canaan is why Canaan is cursed to be our lowest slaves in 9:25-27 --- a line applicable to pseudo-"Semite" people around and within modern "Israel" occupied by "Jews" of two major groups - Ashkenazim and Sephardim (the "real" Jews who rejected JEsus - unlike real Isrealites there who became Christians! - a group damned by Jesus Mat 23:12-33, and themselves! Mat 27:25 - identified by Jesus as having for their "father the devil" John 8:31-44 carrying out the prophecy of such offspring from Gen 3:15 - a lineage I take all the way through via some new archeological data basically overlooked by others!
OK, so, being a true "Ashkenazim" is GOOD - they are true Adamic (thus "son of God Lk 3:38) Noahic (thus of perfect LINEAGE not a time-generation) SONS OF GOD... but not the line given God's further Word, not the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/ISreal -- rather the "children" who will join in Israel (sorry I need by Strong's concordance to get that exact quote, I'm without it in a public library now).
The trouble is that the Khazar/Chazar "Jews" aren't pure Ashkenazim! They were a "Turk" tribe (see 1905 Jewish Enc under Chazars) - more exactly, a mized Turk-Mongol tribe that mixed with EDOMITES who had moved up into Turk lands...
Get WHO IS ESAU EDOM? by Charles Weisman of Burnsville,MN for a study on these. (Of course Arthur Koestler also said most "Jews" were Khazars in THE THRITEENTH TRIBE... and then this famous Jewish author died mysteriously, if I remember correctly!)
EDOMITES ARE HATED BY GOD! Mal 1:1-4. GOD ORDERED THEIR TOTAL EXTERMINATION (Obad 18) and they had destroyed his first temple! (1 Esdras, can't recal exact line, it's a short book)
EDOMITES MONGRELIZED WITH CANAANITES ((Gen 36) a cursed group.
Jesus ordered ultimately the extermination of "tares" weeds he idenitifed as offspring of the Evil One (Satan) thus surely including "Jews" who killed him and still deny him. See his EXPLAINING of the TARES parable Mat 13:23-43.
So, to identify and hate Edomites and offspring of Satan is clearly a Bible MANDATE!!!
WHERE DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS?????
You see, the Bible is like a time-bomb.... written to AVENGE THE KILLING BY "JEWS" OF OUR PERFECT BROTHER AND KING JESUS - the one who will not return meekly, but with an ARMY "host" to judge and make war (REv 19:11-21).... AFTER WE WAKE UP... and get out of the world gov't capital city "Babylon" (to which ALL kings go Rev 17:18 in BABYLON EXPLAINED) - this global capital is now almost fully mature FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HISTORY!!! (Never a true global govt before now, just large regional empires and a weak British empire that FAILED TO OBEY GOD'S LAWS NOT ABOLISHED... THUS IT HAD TO COLLAPSE, AND IT DID.)
We are to get out of that "Babylon" and actually "nuke" it - burn it suddenly and totally in a giant splash-flash exhibited by an angel - Rev 17:18-19:3... BEFORE JESUS RETURNS (REv 19:11-21).
OK.... NOW DO YOU GET THE BIG PICTURE?
I see "9/11" as a wordless warning in the place becoming the global capital - and a city NOT OBEYING BIBLE LAW!
Buford Furrow gave words (WAKE-UP CALL) but was not as effective at killing disobedient people... in fact he only killed one guy, and that one was a mere pre-Adamite mongrel, not an actual Offspring of Satan "Jew."
So, we have the WORD and the DRAMATIC WARNING, but NOBODY IS PUTTING THE TWO TOGETHER... except theat I had broadcast on WWCR shortwave to the world that NYC with the likely coming "Babylon" to be destroyed. SO GET THE HELL OUT OF IT!
OK... NOW WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???
Calgary region, AB Canada - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 18:08:55 (PST)
» Archive 1 » Archive 2 » Archive 3
» Archive 4 » Archive 5 » Archive 6
» Archive 7 » Archive 8 » Archive 9
- Taking a Closer Look at Gnosticism and Christianity
- Gnosticism as explained by Bishop N. T. Wright
- Alexander, the Jews, and Hellenism
- More on Alexander the Great, the Jews, and Hellenism
- Hellenistic Period After Alexander
- Alexandrian Philosophy and Judaism - Jewish Encyclopedia
- Platonism and Christianity
- Allegorical Interpretation